thanks again mujer for some awesome thoughts... i added an alternative viewpoint on my blog - http://hoonhwang.blogspot.com/2009/03/newsflash-internet-is-killing.html

Are shops doomed? Some are and some are not.... I think if you change direction and stay very pro-active with trends, cut the fats, stay specialty, have a crew that knows whats good for both the shop and customer, a crew that rides with the customer, gives back to the local community with events and supports the brands that support their zone should have no issues.

At the end of the day, online sales did hurt the brick shops.... But the brick shops should have also tried to make an online store to combat. I feel that customers that go into a shop, waste a shops time trying things on and leave to buy off the net are scumbags... I understand everyone is trying to save a buck or two, but what happens when you need a warranty, what happens to the people who own a shop for all the right reasons, what happens to jobs, what happens to your local economy? Brands also should make sure their product online holds retail.

Guys like EB and Darkside are rad.... They do a very good job in my eyes....

You say there are no shops Locally Hoon? I know of many shops in the city that do a great job and have some great staff. Yes you may run into a few guys / gals that do not know their shit, but thats why you take the time to find out who that go to person is. You take your time to research what you wanna ride right? So take the time and find out who is who in each shop. I can tell you who you would wanna see in each shop... I can do that for the whole Mid-Atlantic if need be.

At the end of the day there are many shops that do a really great job and there are shops that just follow the mold and just carry the same old same old.... At the end of the day, if people started spending their money locally vs the net you will see shops grow stronger again. Its also up to the shops to make sure staff is on point..... The rep should always be behind the shop and making sure the staff knows how to sell their product and even others. All of us Reps are behind each other in one way or another.... We work in this industry for a reason.

The industry is very small and everyone knows everyone some how and some way. We as sales reps are also trying to figure out a way to help grow our zone back to being vey healthy. We have it just as bas as the shops.... Weather and economy driven business. I know I have been going up and beyond my job to help build the brands... I always bring extra bindings and boards to the hill. I let kids get out and try something new..... Helps the shops too!

Everyone from the Brands, Reps, Shops and end users need to show more support all around. Support locally with anything you buy.... Food, cars, mail order brides, etc... etc...

hey man. i live south of boston. the closest shops to me are 30-40 minutes away and i'd rather support my bros at EB and Darkside versus people who are just converted ski shops or Ski Market (chain)... anyway i'm not NYC or mid-atlantic... New England suckas.

Hey EB and Darkside like I said are very respected in this industry... Keep showing them love!

i'd also add mtnriders to the list. i definitely support them and try to make sure i order something from them whether it's a T or video or wax or hoodie. it's not much but i want to keep connected.

hoon, no prob. Interesting thoughts and perspective on your blog! good job doing your homework :)

Flour City, customers seem to truly want value and quality. And as much quality as you can get for the best deal possible. Everyone in a shop dislikes the customer who comes in to try things on, and gets advice/info before going online to shop. But one huge thing is the fact that the customer came into the shop. So there is a chance to try and hook them as your shop's customer before they go online. Then it just comes down to staying competitive and being able to offer them deals and services that they aren't able to get online. Honestly, I haven't seen too much of that over this season which is good news. And I have actually been able to get a few would be internet shoppers to purchase in the store. Through using the available tools and offering them what our shop offers that you cannot find online. Which were some things they didn't even know about before coming into the store.

Brick and mortar stores are going to have to have online shops moving forward to even stay a player in the big picture of the game. I don't think there is any way around that.

I think the hard part with going shopping at places you may not know that well is all about your first impression. If you go to someplace and you're not that stoked on it right off the bat, chances are you're not going to go running back there to shop again. Or shop there at all in the first place. For instance, we have had issues in the past with shop kids vibin and just having that "too good" for anything and everyone attitude. Those kids seem to struggle more in this industry, especially in a shop, because put simply, they have a harder time getting "it". It's probably not their fault, sometimes they just get influenced, or are young and still learning, or truly think that is the right way to be. But at the same time, negative attitudes do not contribute to positive outcomes. We are selling fun. All you can do is work with those who don't understand that and see if they can begin to get the big picture, and if not, then find the ones that do, and are able to expand on their base of knowledge. But I think that is what hurts a lot of shops is having staff that isn't up to the highest standard they could be, which takes time, patience, and the right tools and programs to grow a staff like that.

Locally vs. the net is a good way to spend money. But at the same time, if people are losing their jobs like crazy with the way the economy is who says they'll be spending at all. If the economy keeps on this path, and companies continue to cut jobs, the Rep jobs will probably be one of the first to go. And that's the reality of the situation. Companies will combine and consolidate territories. Even though most Reps are independent, it is an easy way to trim the fat off of their workforce. That's just my opinion on if things get really bad in the economy and companies have to start making decisions on who to get rid of. I hope it doesn't come to that, but it could be something that could happen.

Nothing in this industry will ever be the way it used to be, or any industry for that matter. I truly believe that things are changed forever. Unless we start getting a ton of snowy winters and the economy starts booming again. Then those are a couple things that could help bring things back. Let's keep those fingers crossed. But hopefully wherever and however things progress and change into, we will all just have to make the best of a bad situation and figure out how to get through things together. The industry is smaller than everyone thinks, everyone does know everyone. Which can be positive and negative. When it all comes down in the end of the day, we're all salespeople trying to sell or buy something. That is one thing to never be forgotten. Helps keep it all in a realistic perspective.

Support is good. But change is better. And positive change in the right direction is where a lot of these manufacturers are falling short. Staying the same will do nothing and things need to change and progress positively. That takes everyone stepping up to the plate and making changes and doing the right thing.

EB and Darkside both do a good job. But most customers are able to keep up with them because they are brick and mortars who also have a strong online following. And they've built their business name over the years, through having solid shops. They're playing it smart. There are a ton of other good places out there to go, in all areas of the country. Some you know about, some you don't.

Our shop is connected to a ski shop, but it is def. a snowboard shop hands down. Look into my profile pics to see a pic of what it looks like. We are figuring things out all the time, but I think any successful business always is. Things are always changing, times are always changing. Skiing and snowboarding are family oriented sports and we have a lot of families that have both skiiers and snowboarders in the family so it helps being connected. It's not like skateboarding, which was somewhat founded on anti-establishment. Honestly, at the end of the day as long as I can get some kid stoked about his new snowboard, that's really all that matters. As long as we're helping to contribute to positive growth of snowboarding, then that's what's important in the big picture. Besides, sadly, the day of the "core" shop in area has long passed. That ship sailed when Hardpact closed. I hate to use that term "core", because it seems to have two meanings, first one, not making any money and being too cool for everything...or staying true to your roots and giving back to something that is important to you. I think a lot of people have that term confused and the context it should be used in. That's a whole different rant.

In the end, if we are able to stick together in some way shape or form. We should all be able to pull through these tough times, hopefully all together and all in it for the right reasons. These next few years will definitely weed out those who can't cut it and adapt. Shops, reps, salespeople, everyone. We're all under the microscope.

Let's seriously cross our fingers, hope for the best, and push some positive changes.

My apologies for the wicked long reply, haha. When I get into a thought process I gotta get it all out! :)

I think the problem is that the industry as a whole is marketing and selling with "the wrong head" (so to speak). Everybody talks about core this and that. Then they talk about poor retention. The fact is that there are a lot more snowboarders out there who are NOT 13 - 25 year old boys. A good chunk of snowboarders are older than what the industry wants to admit. Many are now looking to buy for their kids. The OG snowboarders are all growed up, and don't need to see naked girls on a snowboard.

The industry and shops are also ignoring/scaring away new riders. Some companies pay lip service to the idea of helping new riders, but there is no follow through. Core shops are a scary place for a new snowboarder and generally the look of the shop and attitude of the staff reinforce the fear. A big box, while much more inviting in the looks department is staffed by idiots who know more about soccer shoes. IF the new rider gets equipment, they have no service and are already turned off before they even touch the snow.

Maybe if local shops focused on the new and older snowboarders, they might gain some business. Why not set up really good learn to ride events instead of rail jams? Rail jam kids already have their stuff. New riders don't. You show them a safe, informative (actually learning), great time and they will buy (and probably be life long customers).

Everyone talks about new ideas and keeping up with the times, but it seems all the ideas are pretty much the same.

--rick

The simple truth is the idea of what a shop should do is extinct. With shops like backcountry, sierra, and evo dominating the online market and having forums along with the ask an idiot option you right there have a information base to run to. Now add to that shit shows like yahoo answers, various snowboard forums, blogs from every idiot that can slap a ad or money making widget and what are you left with? The ability to sit at home or your office and find the answers you need.

Now look at the abundance of fat fucks this country has in it. People who are inactive but attempt snowboarding don't enjoy it because of how physically demanding it is. I've seen more than my fair share of chunkers that looked like they were going to have a heart attack just putting the boots on. Why go pay 50 plus bucks for a lift ticket if you could stay at home and pay 50 bucks for a video game?


I'm on my phone and can't keep going onward with this but rest assured I will.

Old balding granola-eating freeriders and stupid ltr kooks just are not just not sexy